Menopause and Mental Health Challenges: A Conversation with Brooke Chambers

Susan Sly:: 00:00

Hey there and welcome to this episode of the Menopause Health Podcast. I am Susan Sly, your host, and today we are going to dive into an issue that a lot of people are not discussing in terms of menopause, and that is mental health. Yes, we talk about hot flashes, night sweats, weight gain, and all of those things. But what about anxiety? What about depression? What about when a surgery puts us into menopause and we don't have the support?

My guest today is absolutely amazing. She is a mental health advisor to the Minister of Health in Canada. She is a peer-to-peer mental health trainer and also the Community Mental Health Advisor to The Paws Technologies. I am so excited for you to hear this episode where we're going to talk about what it’s like to go into surgery as a young woman, to not have the support on the other side, to end up literally in bed, looking for a reason to live every single day, and the courage to address mental health.

So with that, I want to welcome you to this episode with the amazing Brooke Chambers.

Voiceover:: 01:14

The opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the show or its hosts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding your specific health needs.

Voiceover:: 01:40

Welcome to the Menopause Health Podcast—your go-to resource for practical advice brought to you by credentialed health professionals and industry experts. Here is your host, Susan Sly.

Susan Sly:: 01:56

Well, Brooke, welcome to the Menopause Health Podcast. It’s fun to be able to catch up with you because gosh, we go back a very long way to the 1980s, running track at York University. And here we are now, badass women in our 50s, talking about navigating menopause. Thanks for being here.

Brooke Chambers:: 02:22

Susan, I wouldn’t be anywhere else. Whenever you're doing a project that I can be involved with and help in some way, I want to be there. You have done so much for women, but you’ve done so much for me.

Susan Sly:: 02:36

Thank you.

Brooke Chambers:: 02:37

I’ve learned a lot from you, and you helped me turn around my health. There’s a lot I didn’t say to you because it’s been a long time.

Susan Sly:: 02:49

Yeah, it’s amazing. And thank you so much for that. As women, we don’t always know who's watching, and it isn't always something we’re saying. Sometimes it’s how we’re leading by example. And you're here today to talk about mental health because you have led by example. You’ve been so open about your journey, to the point where the Minister of Health in Canada took notice. You are a noted advisor and a community mental health advocate.

When we think about menopause, often it's the hot flashes, night sweats, and weight gain, but the mental health piece, in my opinion, isn’t being spoken about enough. Could you talk about your menopause journey? When did it start for you?

Brooke Chambers:: 03:48

Honestly, I was 34. It was quite an experience. I was a financial advisor at the time, and I was having really heavy periods that wouldn’t stop. It went on for at least 12 months of severe bleeding and incredible pain. I had to seek help because I was literally at work, thinking, "Oh my goodness, I might have bled through my clothes." I worked with all men and had always worked with men, having been a former police officer before going into finance. So, I was just in search of help and in severe depression. At the same time, I was a single mother, looking after my daughter, and it was one of the worst times in my life.

When I went to the doctor, I found out I had fibroids, which I later learned are more common for Black women. The doctor said, "You have no choice. If you want to save your life, we have to do a hysterectomy." So I opted for an emergency hysterectomy. It was an easy decision for me because I knew I didn’t want more children.

But during the surgery, my heart stopped on the table. I woke up in pain with no medication to help me. It took me seven years before I could do a sit-up again because of the complications. They left my ovaries, which meant I didn’t go into full menopause, but I had cysts on my ovaries. I fell into a deep depression. I was off work on disability for a very long time—over a decade.

During that time, I reached out to you, asking if there was anything you could help me with. I had been on 50 different medications, which all caused side effects. My hair even fell out. But what wasn’t being said to me was that these could be menopausal symptoms. During that time, I was also diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and I didn’t know what was going on.

I wasn’t suicidal, but I didn’t care about much anymore. I would just try to get out of bed for my daughter’s sake, so she could go to school. My life went on like that for a very long time, Susan. Depression, hot flashes, not sleeping, sweating a lot—I still sweat a lot. I’d carry clothes in my car, just in case I needed a change. It was a 20-year span of menopause symptoms with no period but still having my ovaries.

Susan Sly:: 11:55

Yeah, and it's Brooke that I’m thinking about right now, and I am so grateful that you're talking about the hysterectomy at age 34 because there's this menopause myth that women in menopause are only in their 50s. There are so many young women who message me, come up to me, and they’re in their 30s saying, "I’m thinking about having a hysterectomy because I have polycystic ovarian syndrome or I have a cancer risk, and I don’t know if I should do it." They’re getting a lot of education about the physical surgery and post-op, but they’re not getting the menopause education. And I’d love to say things have evolved in the last 20 years, but they haven’t necessarily, right?

If you could go back to your 34-year-old self and give suggestions for what questions you would have asked differently, knowing the journey, what are some questions you would have asked?

Brooke Chambers:: 13:13

I did ask this question, which I still say everyone should ask: "Is there another way for me to be healthy besides having this surgery? Are you absolutely sure this is the only way forward for me?" And get more than one opinion—that’s another thing. Read. Ask questions. Ask doctors, "Who else has done this, and can I talk to them?"

The doctors were so sure that if they removed the fibroids, they would damage the uterus because the fibroids were so large. They said, "Your uterus will be no good to you, and we’ll still have to remove the fibroids because there’s no alternative for you in this moment." I had the best doctor I could find, and at the time, I thought I had no choice. I could have said no, but I was losing blood at such an alarming rate that I was fainting. I had no energy. I was fed up. It’s a long time to go through that and try to stay at work.

Susan Sly:: 15:16

We mentioned track earlier, but people don’t know about your experience in law enforcement, being a police officer, and how you aced the fitness tests. I mean, we’re talking about this amazing, fit, strong woman whose body starts controlling her, as opposed to the other way around. Back in the track days, we had coaches telling us what workouts to do, what to eat, and we had benchmarks.

I have a hypothesis that it’ll be interesting to research: sometimes, as women who were athletes—and you and I share that experience—we are so used to putting up with pain, pushing through hard workouts, pushing through the obstacle course, that we just keep pushing. Do you think that was a hindrance or a help in getting you to the point where you finally said, "Enough is enough, I don’t want to live like this anymore"?

Brooke Chambers:: 16:29

Wow, that’s a great question. I absolutely pushed my body, and I still do. The fact that I can endure a lot of pain is true to this day because I have so many other issues that started as a result of being a woman and having reproductive organs, to be honest. When I was running track, the first day of my period was a day off. I couldn’t run, couldn’t do anything. I’d be on the ground, rolling in pain, holding my abdomen. I had to go to the hospital to get a shot of Demerol just to survive my own periods, which started at age 12.

That was my experience the entire time. When I became a police officer, it was the same. I’d be fine one day, and the next day I’d call in sick. One day, the police officers on my shift didn’t believe I was ill, so they came to my house and knocked on the door. I was shocked. They just wanted to see if I was actually sick. At the time, I was one of maybe three female officers, and I was the only Black officer in the Ontario Provincial Police at that time. The men were not supportive in any way, for so many reasons, including the fact that I was a woman going through these things. Putting on a gun belt while in pain is the worst thing ever.

So yes, I pushed through pain, to my detriment. I should have stopped way before. I did ask for help, but I never got it. I didn’t know where to go. It was just me.

Susan Sly:: 19:34

And in those days, too, I can’t speak to how it might have changed, but I was one of five female officers to go into federal corrections in Canada. I didn’t even talk about it for a long time because of the experience I had. Even now, just sharing this on the show, someone will probably say something. But the truth is, sometimes the other officers were worse than the inmates. There was not only a lack of support but also criticism and resentment. I always think, Brooke, about what women will endure. Some women won’t endure it, and I have a ton of respect for them.

Then there are other women, like us, who—maybe because of the color of our skin or because we were athletes—just keep pushing and pushing until we fall over. You made a bold decision to say, "I’m going to be open about this. I’m not going to suffer in silence anymore. I’m going to talk about mental health. I’m going to share my journey." That decision has helped so many people. What was the defining moment for you when you said, "You know what? I’m going to give this a voice"?

Brooke Chambers:: 21:14

It was a long time of contemplation, first of all. I had been in contemplation from my 30s, knowing I had mental health issues but not knowing what it was or how to name it. When I was finally told, "By the way, you have bipolar disorder and you’re in menopause at 34," that’s when I really went quiet. I didn’t say a word because I was already in spaces where I was the only Black woman, and I was scared to say anything. It was my mother, who knows everything and has always been my amazing support, who pushed me.

Susan Sly:: 22:21

As an aside, sorry—shout out to Bernice. Shout out to Mama Bernice, the queen! Seriously, she’s amazing.

Brooke Chambers:: 22:29

Yes, shout out to my mother! You never know who you're born to, but I was born into a family that I was incredibly fortunate to have. My grandparents and parents were amazing. My mother, in particular, was my rock. She understood it all because she had gone through it herself. So when you have someone you can talk to who understands—and it’s your mother—that’s a blessing.

Brooke Chambers:: 22:29

Yes, shout out to my mother! You never know who you're born to, but I was incredibly fortunate to have the grandparents and parents that I did—my father included. My mother understood it because she had gone through it herself. When you have someone you can talk to who understands, and it happens to be your mother, that’s amazing. She always encouraged me because she is a speaker, and a darn good one at that. She tells the story of our family history, which is hockey. My grandfather was a hockey player in the '40s. He was semi-pro for 17 years. He got paid to play the game but never made the NHL, even though he was the best. So my mother tells his story—Herb Carnegie’s story. My mother is Bernice Carnegie, and she’s been speaking my whole life. She’s incredible.

So, she says to me, "I have to go to Ottawa. I have to speak on Parliament Hill." I said, "Oh, okay." This wasn’t unusual because this is what she does, and this is what my life has always looked like. Then she says, "Brooke, will you drive me? I don’t want to drive myself." I thought, "Do I really want to drive my mom to Ottawa on a snowy day from Whitby?" It’s a four-hour drive in the wintertime, but reluctantly, I said, "Okay, I’ll do it." Even though I was lying in bed, exhausted and tired, she said, "No, just get out of bed and come with me." So, I packed my bag and went to Ottawa. Once we got there, she said, "By the way, I’ve signed you up to speak about mental health."

I went, "What? I don’t want to speak about that. What are you talking about?" So, we’re in a room full of people I know from Toronto and surrounding areas, and we’re all Black, from across Canada. We were talking about issues affecting Black people in Canada, and one of the things on the table was mental health. I got called in and told to speak about it. NDP leader Jagmeet Singh was leading the group. We were sitting around this table, and everyone had a mic. It was quite an amazing experience, but I was scared. I didn’t know what to say. I was sitting with politicians, lawyers, and policy analysts—people who were out of my groove. I had been lying in bed for so long. By the time it got to me, and they asked, "Who are you, and why are you here?" the only thing I could say was, "I’m Brooke Chambers, a former police officer with the OPP, Herb Carnegie’s granddaughter, and I have bipolar disorder." That’s what came out of my mouth.

In that moment, the entire room changed. We were there to talk about mental health, but nobody had really opened up about their own experiences. I was the only person who said, "Listen, I have an issue, and it’s really big. Let me tell you what I have and see if we can change the tone of this conversation to get real." So, we got real. After me, everyone else who spoke introduced themselves differently. Instead of saying, "I’m a lawyer from such-and-such," they started sharing more personal things.

One of the policy analysts for the Minister of Health was in the room, and she said to me, "We need to talk." Of course, I said, "Sure, let’s talk." The next day, she said, "The Minister wants to meet you." I was like, "Really? Are you serious?" So, I just went with the flow, Susan. What else could I do? When the Minister wants to talk, you say, "Sure, why not?" I didn’t know what this conversation was going to be, or how I could help, but I thought, why not have the conversation? My mother came with me, and there were some other Black women in the room who talked about things like period poverty—how some women can’t afford to buy pads or tampons. They were very specific about women’s issues and were pursuing their doctorates and master’s degrees. So, we’re all talking to the Minister of Health, telling our stories, and the Minister said, "I need you. I need the information you have to help improve mental health for Black women in Canada. There’s so much we don’t know."

All I did was say, "Yes, sure." And all the yeses led me to this day. I kept talking, and next thing you know, people were calling, asking me to share my story. I understand now how important it is to share your story because it’s therapeutic for me. It helped me along my journey. I became a peer supporter, which I define as someone with lived experience who supports others going through similar experiences. Your story might not necessarily be advice, but it could help someone recognize a new path for themselves. They can see that you can be well, even if wellness looks different for everyone. I haven’t conquered my mental health challenges, but I’ve conquered my self-stigma about them. When you stigmatize yourself, you make your illness worse. When you open up and speak about it—appropriately, of course—it may help others. That’s what I saw my grandfather do as a Black hockey player, sharing his story of racism. I saw my mother share her story as a Black woman. I’ve watched you do it, Susan. I’ve seen it over and over. I’ve been fortunate to be surrounded by people, many from the track days, who are doing amazing things and speaking up to make the world better.

If I can do something, and if what I’m saying helps someone, that’s great because I know it’s helping me. But the first step is self-awareness and looking at yourself honestly. You have to ask, "Is it okay for me to stay here?" because the biggest thing for me was that I didn’t want my daughter to remember me as someone who was always in bed for the rest of her life.

Susan Sly:: 32:28

That was a big deal for you, and your daughter is so amazing. She comes from a line of powerful women. Brooke, as you were sharing that story, I was smiling because you don’t say no to Mama Bernice. If she wants you to drive her from Whitby to Ottawa, you’re like, "Yes, ma’am, let’s go." How tall is Bernice?

Brooke Chambers:: 33:08

She’s about 5’2”, maybe 5’1” now because she’s shrunk a little bit, but she has so much energy. She blows my mind. I ask her all the time, "Why are you healthier than me, and you’re 78?"

Susan Sly:: 33:30

As an aside, I can just imagine you at that table in Ottawa, thinking, "Mom, really?"

Brooke Chambers:: 33:54

Yeah, she got me that day. Without my mother, I wouldn’t be here. Without my daughter, I wouldn’t be here. My family is everything.

Susan Sly:: 34:18

And you’ve used that as a springboard for what you’re doing now. Brooke is the Community Mental Health Advisor at The Paws. When we launch Season One of the show, we’ll talk about our conversational AI. Brooke has gone in and asked tough questions during development. Nate from our data science team was so impressed, saying, "Brooke asked questions I didn’t even think to ask." Brooke, could you tease a little about what that experience was like?

Brooke Chambers:: 35:07

As I’ve said to the team, I’m not a techie, but I’m blown away by what technology can do. You can ask a question and get an answer, but the question is, are you getting an answer that truly supports you? Sometimes the answer needs to be more nuanced. What I see in technology, in all areas, is that women are often missing from the table. Many systems and businesses were created by men, specifically white men, under colonial circumstances.

Brooke Chambers:: 36:31

So, I’m not reflected very often, and I walk into spaces where I’m not reflected very often. I did it because that’s what I do. I come from a family of firsts—people who did this first, did that first—and that’s how it went. So, it became the norm in our eyes. But the most amazing thing happens when I walk into a room, and everyone is Black. It makes my heart sing. We have different conversations because we have different experiences. And when you walk into a room of women, you have a different experience than when you walk into a room full of men.

John Gray definitely got it right with Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. The representation of what isn’t there is what I was talking to Nate about. What is missing here that we do not know? Because the stories are not written or told yet. And as they are told, the AI will only get better. We need diversity of thought—so many different people and experiences—because even though menopause has similar symptoms, they show up differently in different women and at different times.

For example, when am I going to stop having my eggs drop? I’m sure I’m pretty close to that, but everyone is different when it happens. We can never say definitively. Women have gotten pregnant way past their 50s—it’s happened. It’s real. So, we should never assume that just because someone doesn’t have a period, they can’t get pregnant.

But our experiences need to be said. That’s what’s so amazing about what we are doing here and what you’ve created, Susan. It’s going to help so many people who are alone. They may not have anyone to talk to, but now they can talk to the AI and have a conversation that gives them understanding. It means something because they are being directed toward resources—maybe a doctor, a nurse, or someone who can help. They’ll gain a better understanding of their own symptoms, and that self-awareness is key.

In mental health, the first thing you need is awareness. Then you need to take self-responsibility, get care, and find support. If you have those four quadrants taken care of, you’re going to be better than you were before. How far you go, how intense the journey is, nobody can say, because recovery looks different for everybody. We may never be exactly what we were before, but we can age gracefully and accept that we age. But we should do it well. We’re all going to die—we’re not going to be here forever, and we’re all going to go through menopause. We have no choice in the matter. It’s how you handle it that makes all the difference.

Susan Sly:: 41:25

That’s the mic drop right there—how you handle it. And I love what you said, Brooke. You have to take action; there has to be awareness. It can feel really lonely, and that’s a big part of the issue.

The other night, at two in the morning, I had a hot flash. I’m on bioidentical hormones, but it was so intense. I got really upset about it, and then I couldn’t sleep. I thought, “Where is our technology?” I would have loved to have a conversation right then and there. The sense of feeling lonely is very real, but to know you’re not alone—that’s important. That’s what we’re striving for with what we’re building. You’re never alone. You don’t have to go through this by yourself.

As you get support—whether it’s for physical or mental health—you don’t have to be isolated. We get to define this journey. I look at your mom, Bernice, and how she keeps redefining herself at every stage. I see that with you too. Okay, so we may never run as fast as we did before—I mean, we were fast!—but you never know. If I trained that hard again, maybe I would be. There’s Mary Hanna, the 69-year-old Olympian—I’m like, “You go, girl!” Right?

Brooke Chambers:: 43:13

Susan, it’s never too late to do anything. I’ve seen this over and over again. When you make a decision to be better than you are, you can be better than you are. How far you go is up to you, but you’re not competing with anybody. This is a you-versus-you scenario. I can only look back at myself and say, “I’m better than I was 10 years ago.”

When I reach 65, I want to be able to say, “I’m better at 65 than I was at 55.” And I’m okay with the wrinkles as they start to come. I’m fortunate that I have great genes in my family, so I’m okay with my grays. But I’m not okay with feeling bad or sick, so I work on that every day. Every day, I ask myself, “What’s the one thing I can do today to feel better?”

Sometimes it’s just a walk in nature. That makes all the difference for me.

And one of the things that I thought was genius that you got me to do was write 10 gratitudes a day. That has really changed my life.

Susan Sly:: 45:24

Brooke, I can’t thank you enough for being here. For everyone listening or watching, drop your comments below and make sure you subscribe to the show. Brooke’s social media is in our show notes.

Brooke, first of all, in front of the entire world, I just want to say, “I love you.” And for those who can’t see Brooke, she’s wearing this amazing green top today. Girl, yes! I used to wear all black too because I was sweating through everything, but now I’ve embraced color. Brooke, you look amazing, and you are glowing. So, for those who are just listening to the show, go check out the YouTube shorts and reels. You have to see Brooke because she’s radiating.

To me, you are ageless. And we’re still those girls whose claim to fame was that Ben Johnson asked us both out at the same time—just not on the same day! (Laughs)

Brooke Chambers:: 46:23

(Laughs) Oh, Ben! He was just on TV with a new book. I say, “Good for him.” But yeah, he’ll never go through menopause though!

Susan Sly:: 46:45

No, he will not! Brooke, thank you so much for being on the show. You’ve been an avid listener of the many things I’ve put out over the years, and you’ve helped me so much. So, keep doing what you do because the world needs you.

Brooke Chambers:: 47:03

Thank you, Susan. It’s been awesome being here with you.

Susan Sly:: 47:10

Well, thank you, my friend. And with that, I want to send so much love to everyone listening to the show. Make sure you check out the previous episodes of Season One and the upcoming episodes. Thanks again, Brooke, for being here. I love you, and I’ll see everyone in the next episode of the Menopause Health Podcast.

Voiceover:: 47:25

This Menopause Health Podcast is brought to you by The Pause Technologies. To find out more, visit thepause.ai, and follow us on your favorite social media channels. Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button, share the show, and connect with us. We will see you in the next episode!

This transcript has been generated using AI technology. There may be minor errors or discrepancies in the text.

The opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the show or its hosts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding your specific health needs.