Reinventing Intimacy & Connection in Menopause with Erin Moran, PhD

Susan Sly: 00:00

Welcome to The Menopause Health Podcast. This is Susan here, and I am so excited you're here. This show really focuses on helping women navigate perimenopause and menopause. Why? Because we believe that the best is yet to come.

And my guest today is a girlfriend. She has her PhD, she's absolutely phenomenal, and we are going to talk about sexuality. We are going to talk about bringing the spice back into relationships. We're going to talk about redefining yourself at menopause, and how you and your partner, if you have a partner—even if you're single, this is the show for you—can really create a new chapter.

And, and I am so excited. We had the best time on the show. It was amazing.

Before we get into the show, as always, this podcast is brought to you by thePause™. thePause™ is an app that is intuitive. It is AI coaching. It is menopause management at your fingertips. It is available on iOS, and I use this app every single day—whether it is symptom tracking, whether it is chatting with our generative AI agent, Harmoni™, for everything from meal tips to exercise planning to how to sleep better.

I have even asked her for tips on what to do when my husband and I aren't getting along. I am not even kidding—she's phenomenal. And so the app is so much more. So check it out right now. We are sharing it with our beta testers, and we're getting rave reviews. We're getting amazing feedback, and we have deeply discounted the price for the time being, so we'd love for you to check it out.

So go to www.thepause.ai or go into the App Store for iOS.

My guest today is incredible. She is a passionate advocate for women's health and human sexuality. She holds a PhD in human sexuality, a master’s degree in counseling, and a BS in human development and family resources. She began her career as a counselor in Los Angeles, where she focused on supporting women through the complexities of sexual health, relationships, and well-being.

Her dedication to empowering women extended beyond the counseling room as she transitioned into roles where she could create systematic change. She is a community leader. She is a podcast host. She is a force of nature. And so I would love for you to be as excited as I am about this coming episode with the one and only Erin Moran.

Voiceover: 02:43

The opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the show or its hosts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding your specific health needs.

Voiceover: 03:08

Welcome to The Menopause Health Podcast—your go-to resource for practical advice brought to you by credentialed health professionals and industry experts. Here is your host, Susan Sly.

(Music playing.)

Susan Sly: 03:24

Well, Erin, it is so great to have you on The Menopause Health Podcast, and we're gonna jump right in.

Everyone knows that we're gonna talk about the S-word with the M-word, and it's not S and M, y'all. It's like sexuality and menopause. Get your head out of the gutter. This isn't Fifty Shades of Grey.

This is going to be a fun episode. We may talk about that—I don’t know.

Erin, I want to jump right in. Prior to starting the show, you were talking about this concept of women not even knowing what they want or thinking about the fact that, as women are going through perimenopause and menopause, their bodies are changing, and maybe what they used to enjoy doesn't feel good anymore.

And as an expert in human sexuality, I want to jump right in and talk about how our bodies change in response to hormonal changes and sexuality because I think a lot of women listening beat themselves up, and I know it can cause a rift, especially in partnerships and marriage.

Erin Moran: 04:31

Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on your show today. It is an honor to sit alongside you talking about anything. So thank you.

You know, this is such an important topic, and it's truly not something we talk about nearly enough. What you guys are doing with your initiative, with thePause™, with all of that, is bringing this conversation to light and making it accessible for people. So that's so important.

We know with our changing hormones, our estrogen’s taking a dive, our testosterone is taking a dive, everything is changing, and we start to notice that we're feeling different. And so if you are partnered, you know, if you have a spouse or a partner that you are with all the time, that might be feeling maybe rejected a little bit, might be feeling like, "Hey, why are you not into this?"

And you're asking yourself, especially if you happen to be a sexual person, and that is part of your natural way of being, then you're saying, "Hey, is there something wrong with me? Am I depressed right now? What is it?"

And it's really—we know that estrogen drives libido, so does testosterone, and so once those things start taking a dip, you might find you're just genuinely not even having sexual thoughts. You're not interested, right?

And so you're asking yourself, "Has something changed?"

Yeah, something's changed. So now you have to be a little more intentional with that.

You know, on top of just the libido changing, we know that your body, and physically in terms of your responsiveness, might start to change. So you might notice more vaginal dryness. You might notice, because of that, sex might become painful. You might notice some changes with your pelvic floor and the tightness that you've experienced previously.

Again, these are things that we have to be more intentional about addressing. And so that's kind of the baseline of where I like to start with people, is, Where are you today? What is happening?

So do we—are those things happening? Because it doesn't happen to everybody, and it happens differently to all of us.

And I think that's kind of the premise of a lot of the things you talk about, is, yes, there are these blanket amounts of symptoms, and some of us have four, and some of us have 52.

You know, I happen to be sitting in the bucket of like, "Oh, there's a lot of things going on," you know, personally, where I'm like, "Gosh, what am I gonna do? Is this happening?"

You know?

And I found, you know, your platform to be such a resource for that, even for me personally, just in a generalized way.

But the first step is getting in tune with where you're at so that you can have that real conversation with yourself, right?

You know, Am I still finding pleasure in the things that were pleasurable before?

Backing it up even further, Do I know what I like? Right?

That's one of the things we're chatting about.

And a lot of people don’t.

A lot of people really are doing what they do because they've been with this partner for so long, and this is what he's liking.

And so it really causes us to pause, get real with where we're at, do a self-check, and then start to dial in a little bit further on things that we can do to improve our experience—for ourselves first, but also with our partner.

Susan Sly: 07:40

I have so many questions right now.

The first one that comes to mind, and, and Dr. Mitzi Krockover was on the show, and we talked about menopause ADHD, so I have like 50 questions.

I can start with the first one that's top of mind.

What do you say to the woman, Erin, who's never taken a moment to ask herself, What do I like?

Erin Moran: 08:07

Yeah, you know, that's so many women.

I have this conversation so often, and so I start asking them to tune in to their moments that they are with their partner, that they find the most joy.

Because a lot of us have been programmed to think that climax, that orgasm, is the definition of enjoying sex.

It's not.

It's not for most of us women, because over 60% of women do not have an orgasm through penetrative sex.

So that's normal.

And that's another problem, because we're all walking around thinking, "What's wrong with me? I just can't do it. It must be a mental block."

No.

Our bodies actually are kind of made so that you have to have external stimulation or be in correct positioning to achieve that, if you ever can, right?

So I ask them to get in tune with what things do they realize that they are starting to lean into the experience more, right?

And start to think about those things afterwards, like do a check-in with yourself.

Also, I know it's an uncomfortable thing, but masturbation is something that is really important for us to figure out what we like.

And if you can find that time where you can set 45 minutes aside, have a nice, relaxing bath, because we have to get ourselves in the right mental state to even receive pleasure, period, right?

Because there's a lot of taboo. There's a lot of thoughts that could be associated—religious thoughts, other things that are behind why you would choose to do this or not.

But it's so important.

And there's so many tools nowadays that are just external, because a lot of women have more issues with the idea of penetration from someone who's not their partner, and have some of these vibration tools be able to wake things up.

Because, girl, let me tell you, they will wake things up.

You'll be like, "Oh—oh, okay, that's the thing I didn't even know," right?

And then you can start learning what are your erogenous zones that are most effective for you.

You know, that's a great place to start, if you can get up the courage.

Because that is one of the things—you're breaking through something that maybe you haven't done in the past to get to know your own body.

But the other place, if you have a partner, is getting into simple touch.

You know, have a romantic—let’s light candles around and just truly slowly touching each other so that you can identify that.

Also, to learn, like, "Hey, penetration is not the goal right now. This is—let's spend some time connecting."

And I think that's another problem.

When you think about people who have been together for a little bit of a longer time, we see they don't have those little intimate moments.

That looks like a super passionate kiss that's six to ten seconds.

Or, you know, they find that their husband or their partner is only coming to give them that kind of passionate kiss when they want something.

And so then you're kind of like, "Don't even try it. I'm not doing it."

Because we know we're going to go from A to Z, and there's not going to be any of the letters in between.

But I want all the letters in between.

So let's pause, and let's work on A through D right now.

And that looks like the initiating and figuring those things out, you know, truly through that slow, intimate connection that doesn't necessarily involve penetration as well.

Susan Sly: 11:38

And everyone listening, it's okay to want the whole alphabet, right?

All the alphabet.

When I wrote the book The Have It All Woman, there was this article in The Atlantic, and it was talking about, "No, women can't have it all."

And there was this nonsense, like, "We can have it all, just not at one time."

And I was like, "Actually, no, we can have it all at one time," because we have to respect that each person's definition of having it all is going to be different, and that that definition is going to change as we change, as we have new experiences.

And one of the things you were talking about—having the conversation, right?

And so, to that, we're going to put to the side for a moment, y'all who are dating.

Erin and I have many, many, many girlfriends who are single and going through menopause.

That is not for this question I'm about to ask, but don't worry—we're coming to you too.

For those of you who have a partner, Erin, what would you recommend in terms of having the conversation?

Because I have met—and I know you have too—many women who haven't had the conversation with their partner for a variety of reasons.

So what steps do you recommend that a woman take?

Erin Moran: 12:53

So I think it's really important not to dump on our partners all the things that have been in our head for the past 10 years that you didn't say, right?

And you're like, "Hey, this is my moment. I'm brave. I've had two glasses of wine. Let me dive in and just tell you all the ways I'm feeling."

That can really be overwhelming for someone, where this is like, "Where is this out of left field? What do you mean? You haven't been enjoying it for all this time?"

And it could really create a negative response.

So my recommendation is really to kind of think of one or two feelings that are heaviest on you right now that you can sit down, you know, in a safe, not confrontational type of setting.

So we're not doing this in the midst of an argument, like, "By the way, I haven't come for two years."

Not a great idea to go that direction, right?

But, "Hey, you know, I have noticed that some things feel different with my body, and it's bothering me.

So first of all, know that this is not because of you, that I'm going through this.

This is something that actually all of us will go through at some point.

And I didn't automatically recognize that this is what was happening, but I think it is.

And so, you know, I used to really crave you touching me, and now I'm just being honest that I haven't been having that feeling so often.

So I know maybe when you're initiating, it seems like I'm not interested, but really, I'm trying to understand for myself.

I do feel a little bit less compelled to want that, you know?

And maybe it is—I know that maybe you've noticed when we're having intercourse that it doesn't feel the same for you, but it also doesn't feel the same for me.

So I would really like to figure out how we can get to a place where I'm finding that joy again in the same way, because I know you feel it.

Like, our bodies are in tune with each other.

We're literally connected in this moment.

You know, I want to be able to connect with you the way that I used to, and so would you be willing to be patient and help me find some new ways that we can have fun and explore together?

Susan Sly: 14:59

Yeah, I love that. And in the show transcript, you could just literally cut and paste what Erin said right off the transcript, and you could use it as your script.

You could do it out of your—Erin, the men's bodies are changing too.

So this is also a period of time—we had Andrea Campbell on the show. She's a nurse practitioner, and she was talking about the 30-plus different symptoms of perimenopause, one of which is itchy skin.

So that—you mentioned about touch.

So as women, we can have sensitivity to even touch—touching parts of our body that aren't related to our sexual organs, right?

Everything is a sexual organ, but maybe you used to like your arm touched, now you don’t.

You're itchy, and you're hot, and it's like, "Don't touch me. Don't come near me."

Plus, if you're like me, where I have the room at 35 degrees Fahrenheit every night—if we're, you know, in Montana, and I have the door, like, the—I literally have the screen door on our balcony wide open.

It's delightful.

Chris is wearing like a parka.

Good—anyway.

Talk about lack of intimacy there.

But the men's bodies are changing too, and I think that's the big thing for women to understand.

If your partner is a man, that he's going through his own stuff as well.

And could you speak about what—because just as menopause is having a moment, andropause has not had its moment yet.

Andropause is the male equivalent to menopause, and it can have a lot of physical changes.

But can you talk about what men are going through at this stage and what they may be experiencing?

Because I think part of the conversation is both people really sharing.

Erin Moran: 16:43

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, I think if you are at this stage, you've certainly experienced your partner's change.

And it's one of the things that women are afraid to call out, because you're like, "Hey, where's he at? Are we here? Are you—is he coming to the party? Or if we're not, we're here by myself."

And that is frustrating, because automatically, our first feeling is rejection, right?

You've had this person that's already been like, "Hey, let's go anytime that you want to," and really seeking you out, and now you're like, "Well, I'm here, but you're not. Like, is it—so is it my body? Do you not like my body anymore?"

That's what I hear from women so often, is they feel truly rejected from their partner when he is not performing.

And we know as their testosterone drops, they have a significant decrease in libido and in the ability to achieve and sustain erections.

And so that looks like something that is—we know that the male ego is the most fragile thing on the planet.

It just is.

So this is an important one—how we come to this conversation.

Because if we come in too direct, like, "Hey, you have a problem," now, I would say that.

But my partner—like, "Hey, what's—what's going on?"

You know, it's being able to have that just in that kind of way.

"Hey, I noticed that maybe we're not being able to have interactions the same way that we have, but I really miss that.

You know, I know that things are changing with you, just like they are with me.

And have you had a check-in with your doctor recently?"

Right?

Maybe it's something that looks like exploring getting your testosterone checked, because it's pretty easy for a man to get hormone replacement therapy, to, you know, take testosterone that could quickly correct the trajectory that they're in and everything about the way they feel, energy-wise.

You know, it really does help them out in a drastic way.

But they have to be willing to shed that ego a little bit to say, "Something is changing, and it is affecting my relationship right now."

And I am most certain that they're not happy about it as well.

You know, that's a lot of—as we know, how men define themselves.

And so my recommendation is gently having the conversation.

But the longer you don't have it, the worse things are getting for both parties, right?

The worse and the heavier.

Because now he's already maybe not performing once or twice.

Now, what has that done?

That's given him performance anxiety, right?

So now, every time he gets close to you, he's going to start thinking about those couple of times when he couldn't do it.

And now he's just in his head, like, "You better get here today. You're going to be—you better—"

"I don't know what to tell you, babe. Like, I don't know. This never happens."

No.

This happens.

It's happened the past couple of times.

So let's talk about how to fix it.

So it's that—the biggest thing here is grace.

We have to give ourselves grace.

We have to give our partners grace.

And we have to realize that this is going to happen to most of us at some point in time.

And so do we want to fix it?

Do we want to explore and find other ways that we can connect?

Because things are only going to continue changing the older that we get, right?

These things—there's not a permanent fix for most of these things.

They are going to change.

So how do we find a way to connect intimately together?

That could look like doing other things that are not just intercourse, that we both find pleasure from.

And that is something, you know, you need to explore.

But having doctors involved oftentimes does assist in this process.

You know?

Absolutely.

Susan Sly: 20:25

And, and I think that more men—I'm noticing in our friend group—are having the conversation, which they weren't before.

So, Erin, one night, we had some couples over for dinner, and all the guys are around the same age.

And just—the way it happened—the girls were kind of at one table, and we're, like, talking.

And I, you know, I have, like, Mommy ears, so I can kind of, like, have, like, hearing like a bat—like sonar—so I can hear multiple conversations.

And they're having this conversation.

They're talking about testosterone and what was going on before testosterone.

I'm like, I love the fact that these guys are, like—one guy's former, like, Spec Ops military—and, you know, they're—they're talking about, like, they're all on testosterone and how they're feeling.

And I think there's an amazing opportunity for men and for women in their 50s and in their 60s to have not just a revival—because we never want to look back.

Because, oftentimes, when we're having sex when we're younger, there might be other reasons—like to make a baby, for example.

But now, to be able to get to redefine it, and to also be able to explore.

And I want to ask you about that.

So, you mentioned earlier, you know, kind of couples who—this is the way, kind of, we've always done it, and that was great.

But let's talk about the psychology of letting go of that, because now the bodies are changing.

And I'm also—I'm candidly—I'm seeing a lot of men who are looking better now.

Like, my husband looks better now in his 50s than he did in his early 40s.

And, and you and I have some mutual girlfriends who are having, like, these revivals in their late 40s and 50s.

Many of them are on HRT.

They're just taking care of themselves differently.

They're much more self-actualized.

Can you talk about that?

How do you recommend people redefine who they are as a sexual being in this stage?

Because the goal is not procreation anymore, right?

Erin Moran: 22:28

Yeah.

And so, there's so much of kind of what we opened up with chatting about, and that is understanding what you like and what feels good.

And the exciting part about this is the exploration.

That is the fun part.

That is the fun part.

And so, really—even gamifying sex in some ways.

I mean, they have so many cool tools, so much that have come out with—I know you guys feature a few things on your guys' site.

When you think about truly making it a game of exploration—let's pull out these dice, you know, and let's see.

Let's see what this says to do.

Let's try.

But I think getting to the playful side of things and taking some of the pressure off.

You know, when you are so serious about, We have to figure out how to make this work the way it used to, then you're going to feel and have these check-in moments that feel like failure—because it isn't the same anymore.

And the goal is not to get back to the same.

The goal is to get to joy and to find out what that looks like for each other.

So, bringing down those barriers and truly setting aside time where, "Hey, tonight, kids are already out of the house. We're truly just the two of us.

We are going to have fun tonight."

And I really recommend some of these games that look like, "Hey, left foot, right—up, gets there. This is what we're going to do," because it even takes the pressure off of you for having to be creative in finding other things that you can do with each other.

Um, but really—again—back to that word of grace to say, "Hey, we're different now.

We—we don't even like the same things that we used to like."

I was just talking with a girlfriend the other day, and we're talking about how noise changes.

Like, I cannot go into a place to go dancing, because dancing is my—is my thing.

It is my happy place.

And when I get in there, and I'm like, It's so loud. It's too loud. I hate it.

I have to, like, be on the outskirts or on the patio area so I can feel comfortable to dance.

Because I want to dance, but I can't handle the noise.

So, that's just an example of saying, "Hey, what I liked 15 years ago—I hate that now. But I still like a part of it."

And how do I make it so I can find pleasure in that thing?

So, having the honest and real conversation of, "I'm committing to you that we are going to find a way that we are both going to love this.

And it might not look like how it did when we were 20, but we're going to love the version that it is now."

And being intentional about setting aside time to do that.

So, you hear in any—every—relationship book you've read, you know, have those planned date nights.

Have those planned—they're on the calendar.

If it looks like two times a month that you're going to do that as a start—to get back to a place where you're finding that connectivity in that intimate way.

You know, be intentional.

Just like you put your runs—your morning runs—as something you have to do, then this two-time-a-month check-in, where we're going to get real with each other and have fun and make it fun, could be a stripped-down way to commit to getting back to a place of joy.

Susan Sly: 25:42

And, and it's so much like you said about that priority.

And I have a follow-up question, because I want to—I want to talk about some different circumstances in the redefinition, but just to share a story.

So, Chris and I, we were having a moment.

We have been together for 25 years.

We have known each other now for 40 years.

We grew up two miles apart from each other, and our dads were best friends in high school.

This is a very long love story.

Anyway, we drive each other crazy at times, and we were having a moment, but we had scheduled a date night.

And he's like, "We don't need to go."

And I'm like, "Oh, yes, we do."

Because the moment you say we don't need it is the moment we definitely need the date night.

And just getting out of the house, having some conversations, a cocktail—and it just ended up being an amazing night.

But that's the thing, especially when you've been together a long time—you've got to make the effort.

And you know each other so well, and you know how to push each other's buttons.

And that's, you know—that's when you have to take out the ego.

Dr. Wayne Dyer was a friend of mine who used to say, "Susan, ego stands for edging God out."

You have to take out the ego, pull yourself back a little bit, and be like, "Yes, we need to get out of this circumstance, have the conversation."

And so, I love that you said that.

And we'll go dancing.

Erin, dancing is my thing too.

Chris doesn't dance.

I'll go with you 100% anytime.

The question I want to ask is, we have a lot of women in this age cohort who are cancer survivors.

And so now, on top of menopause, they've gone through cancer.

Maybe they've gone through chemo, radiation.

Maybe they've lost their hair.

And now they're like, "I'll never be the same person I was before."

So, what advice do you give to a woman who—that has been part of her journey in terms of finding herself sexually again?

Erin Moran: 27:39

Yeah, that's a really big challenge, right?

Because the first piece of that looks like, What is your body image right now?

And that was actually what my studies were on originally—how women behave sexually according to their body image.

And we know that women are much less likely to participate in a lot of—a variety of activities, especially dependent upon how it puts their body in a certain light, to whether they will or not.

And so, my advice for those women is first to find that piece of self-love, right?

Realize that this body is the vessel that allows us to do all things in life—truly.

And how grateful—and that deep piece of gratitude to get back to, to say, But it's still working, and I'm still here, and I can still make memories, and I still have the ability to connect.

And I still have a partner—if you do have a partner—that's here alongside you, that wants to be with you, that loves you, that supports you.

And that's—those parts are important.

But if you're not connected in here with yourself, there is no real other prescription that's going to get you past doing any of the things, right?

And so, when you realize the glory that your body is, and the fact that, again, you get to have one more laugh, you get to have one more of all the things, or many more of those things, then that is where you have to start.

You have to start with practicing, you know, and being honest.

Well, I don't—we have a body image exercise that we'll do where we have our clients stand in front of a mirror and truly, from top to bottom, say what you like and don't like.

Say it out loud, and then let it go, right?

Let it go.

If your hair is shorter and you don't like it—well, maybe for these date nights, to make you feel a little bit better, you go get your makeup done and get a cute wig that you love and make it a role-play.

Because you can take yourself out of your own space into a different character and be that character.

And if Dolly is the gal you gotta be to show up in that way, then Dolly has all the fun.

And we're going to make sure that Dolly has all the fun, right?

And that's a way to, like, separate your mind—at least from your current state—if you can't get to that place of self-love.

But I am such a huge proponent of therapy and having—being able to talk it out with somebody who is not your best friend, who's supposed to gas you up, right?

They're supposed to tell you what a boss and how incredible you are, and how beautiful you are, and all the things.

Susan Sly: 30:10

Well, since we're having real talk about real life, Erin, and everything from mental health, vaginal dryness, sexuality to andropause—you know, we just had an internet glitch.

And, Erin, you were in the middle of talking about this concept of a reinvention.

I really think about menopause being a chapter, and it can be such a badass chapter—one that we get to write, that we get to create, and also taking our limits off and being willing to try new things.

And you were talking about role-playing.

And so whether it's someone who has, you know, decided, "Hey, I'm gonna put a wig on. I've gone through chemo," or you didn’t go through chemo—you want to wear a wig? Just—you wear a wig.

Or you want to buy a different outfit, wear something you wouldn't usually wear, go somewhere with your partner you wouldn't usually go.

But can you talk about that from the vantage point of your work, and how you've really seen couples thrive with some experimentation?

Erin Moran: 31:11

Yeah.

I mean, you know, we come in our heads with all these ideas of shoulds, right?

I always say, Don’t should all over yourself, because the only expectations we have to live up to are the ones that we set for ourselves.

Those are what's most important.

So if we release ourselves from the shoulds, from how things should look, it is such a just glorious freedom—of freedom to experience, really, in all ways in life, but specifically around this—sexual expectations.

And so, when you kind of get out of the box of how things have looked and say, I'm kind of open to whatever we decide that we want to explore together, or, you know, if you're by yourself—What do I want to try now? What do I want to do? How do I want this to look for me?

And again, I think I've talked a lot about grace, because I think it's so important.

When we talk about this, we talk about sexuality, how we feel about ourselves, how we really look at ourselves as sexual beings.

And, Susan, that's one of the things that's been so beautiful in my mind about, really, this ownership that women have—now have—of their sexuality.

Because really, pre-the-90s, I think of the Sex and the City kind of boom that happened, where we started putting it outward, where we had permission, and we gave ourselves permission to be sexual beings.

There's a lot that changed in the dynamic of relationships once you say, No, hey, this is not just about you. This is about me, too.

And so, when you start asking those questions—to yourself or to a partner—like, Are there things that you've wanted to try that we haven’t done?

Are there—like, what has been in your mind? What are your fantasies? Name to me what your fantasies are.

And even asking yourself that—What does that look like?

Maybe you've always had this massage parlor fantasy.

And guess what?

We can set that up right now in the room.

Let's—let's make a little massage bed, and you can be Gustavo for the day.

I don't know what that looks like, but, you know, in real life, it looks messy.

It's not this perfect—all the things we see in the rom-coms, in porn—these are not—that's not real.

That's not how couples get together.

It's messy.

Being able to be free to laugh—laugh it off when we have tried something new.

And you're like, That accent was horrible, but by the way— and you're, like, giggling.

There's a part of the fun of that, that you find.

And then, you see this truly new chapter of what your sexual journey looks like—one that is just blossoming.

Because there are all of these things, and the communication piece is incredible.

When you're able to be real and authentic with your partner, with yourself, then that trickles down.

Because these are hard conversations to have.

And if you're able to really be vulnerable like that with a partner, then maybe you're able to talk to them about some other things you haven’t before.

And maybe they're starting to share more things—in many different ways—with you that they haven’t before.

Because you now have this newfound connection that is fun, that is playful, that is a whole new world—like Jasmine says—one that you get to define for who you are, how you want it, and how you want to be together, you know?

Yeah.

Susan Sly: 34:46

Absolutely.

And this childlike—no-show play.

You know, when we were little girls, we would dress up, right?

And then we become adults, and this concept of we have to be a certain way, or we have certain roles, we have to show up in these ways, in those roles.

And to be able to revisit that and to explore is so healthy.

And the other thing I'm going to say is—one of my girlfriends, who is my menopause mentor—because I was raised by a single dad, who obviously didn't go through menopause.

And she—she helped me know what to expect or what I might expect.

One of the things she always said is, "Susan, you have to prioritize sex."

And they schedule it.

And so, they had this concept of every Sunday morning—that was their time.

And so, no matter what was going on.

And then Montell Jordan—like, This Is How We Do It.

Montell Jordan and his wife, Kristen.

So, Montell—I've seen him, I've seen him speak a few times.

And he and his wife, they have a relationship ministry.

And one of the things Montell and Kristen were talking about—for them, it's Sunday night.

And so, they started having their kids over for brunch, because they're like, "We want y'all out of the house, because Monday afternoon is our time."

And, and to be able to claim a time, but have no expectation other than to be together at that time—I think that's a healthy way to start, right?

Erin Moran: 36:16

Absolutely.

Um, you mentioned play, and there is a doctor—his name is Dr. Gabor Maté.

I don't know if you've read any of his books, or—I mean, I'm obsessed with him, by the way.

But he talks a lot about that element of play, and how, you know, when you think about your overall happiness, that is something that is so important that people get away from.

They think of play as frivolous time spent, but that is so much about what brings joy into your life—are the frivolous moments of things that are just solely about bringing you happiness.

And if we're so sewn into all of the tasks of our days and all of the things we have to do—then, yeah, playing—playing is last on the totem pole.

But then you find that you start getting that burnout, that emotional burnout, that trickles down to every single area of your life.

And if you can bring a little bit of play back into your life, in whatever way that looks like—as a hobby.

But sexually—when you think of it as something that we're playing, like, This is the way we get to play together.

And I just say—it’s a pretty great way to play together, if you can figure it out, right?

And bring some of the—the feeling that it's okay to laugh when things happen.

It's okay when we're like, "Oh, he's not having his day—that's all right."

We can do lots of other fun things.

And being able to let it go, and be able to laugh at each other—in a way that doesn’t feel like you're laughing at them, but like, We're laughing. This is funny.

It's—it's funny.

And you take so much pressure off of it, you know?

You see the joy starting to come back in so many different areas of your life.

And so, I always encourage people—regardless of what state you're in—get back to playing, whatever that looks like.

You should—you should bring a little bit.

They call it sparking joy, right?

And how can you get to that?

Susan Sly: 38:08

And there's so many—with play, too—it elicits so many hormones.

And that's the whole piece around menopause and andropause—like, the hormones have changed, right?

And everyone has to remember, too—yes, there's hormone replacement therapy.

Yes, there are natural interventions.

But at the end of the day, some of the things that are so available to us—whether that's getting the exercise in, getting proper sleep, proper nutrition, laughing, playing—those things help to support healthy hormones.

And sometimes, for people, just doing those things can be the thing that—that opens the door to more possibility and redefining.

Erin, I want to ask you two, two more questions unrelated to this topic.

So, the first one is—you are known in the city of Phoenix, if not the state of Arizona, as such a leader and an advocate for women's heart health.

And you have a very, very personal story.

And we know that heart disease kills more women than the top five cancers combined in the United States.

And we had, you know, co-founder of thePause™, Mia Charney, on—talking about women's heart health.

When Dr. Jen Burke was on, we spoke about women's heart health.

For you, it's deeply personal.

Erin Moran: 39:30

It is very, very personal.

And, you know, my sister—there over my shoulder.

She's there over all the work I do.

And I just think about keeping her in the forefront as my why.

But, you know, she did lose her life at 34 years old, after seeking medical attention from her urgent care, an emergency room, and a cardiologist—all in the week prior to suffering a massive stroke.

And so I—I raise her now eight-year-old daughter, and see those beautiful green eyes looking up at me as a hope, as a—as a way to say, you know, Her mom should be here. I should not be in this space.

And so many other women that lose their lives and the opportunity to spend one more day with their daughter or with their child.

And so, it became very real for me in a need to raise awareness, to educate, to ensure that women are taking care of themselves.

All the things you just said—exercise being so important to the topic we're talking about right now, as well as just your overall longevity and your ability to experience life.

You know, nutrition—we are what we eat.

And so, if we're eating garbage all the time, and all the sugary and processed things, you're going to feel bad.

You're not going to feel good.

And so, you're probably not going to want to be sexual.

But also—you might not have a lot of days left to be sexual.

And so, that's a really big piece as well.

We know that our minds and bodies are not disconnected.

No matter how bad that Western medicine wants to tell us that we're going to treat one system at a time—because none of them are affecting each other.

We know that they are deeply connected.

And so, you know, chronic stress leads to chronic disease, and it will manifest in your body.

And so, you know, I have made it my first and most important work that I do on a day in and day out to, you know, give a little bit more time to the women that we know and love the most, and make sure that they know that their symptoms are different.

Because I am not going to use the words that they want us to use in terms of atypical.

Our symptoms are different than our male counterparts.

And helping them understand what those are.

You know, you have tightness in your jaw, you feel sick to your stomach, you have back pain.

Well, that's certainly not this crushing chest pain that you've been taught about your entire life to think that something's wrong with my heart.

These could all be symptoms of heart disease and something happening, like a heart attack.

If you don’t know, though—what are you going to do?

You're just going to sit there and say, Something feels wrong. I don't know what it is.

And then you're going to have, possibly, a doctor gaslight you into believing that, Oh, you're just having an anxiety attack.

And this is what they told my sister—"You're having a panic attack. You should go home and take a nice bath."

And not run any of the proper diagnostics.

And that's what we see so often, is that women are less likely to receive the same diagnostics as our male counterparts.

We are more likely to receive Ativan in the emergency room when we say we're having pain.

"Oh, I said I'm having pain. I didn't say that—I—I need to be sedated."

That's not what I said.

But that's how our symptoms are perceived.

And so, being able to use your voice, be aware of what your unique signs and symptoms are, and also know that you've lived in your body longer than anybody else externally has.

And you know if something doesn’t feel right.

And pushing past—getting a first, second, and eighth opinion, if that is needed.

You know, I just want to really empower women to take control of their health, of their lives, of their sexuality—of all things.

If you look at my social media, I go by Lioness, because I believe that—right?

We are the hunters.

We are the ones that get things done.

And I am a woman’s woman.

And if we could have a little bit more joy, a little bit more time, a little bit more pleasure, and all the things—then I want to be a part of that solution, for sure.

Susan Sly: 43:40

Erin, that is so beautiful.

And you, my friend, are so beautiful.

And it's always so fun to spend time with you.

And, Erin and I will host a dance party.

You're all invited.

Erin Moran: 43:54

Into it. I can't—I—

Susan Sly: 43:57

I can't help myself.

And this is the—the menopause ADHD.

But I probably had ADHD my whole life.

So, the—I'm going to throw this fact out there.

This is so unrelated, but I couldn't stop thinking about this when we had the earlier conversation about play.

I read a statistic that the Christmas season is the most likely time for men to incur penile injuries because of having a beverage and exploring different sexual positions.

And so, that—I cannot remember where I read it.

So, it is—I can't share the link in the show notes.

So, I just wanted to say, as a public service announcement—play.

But also—

Erin Moran: 44:42

Be careful.

Be careful.

Erin Moran: 44:46

I know it's crazy, but you can break it.

You can.

And that's not going to be a fun recovery time.

I can pretty much promise you that.

So, let's play responsibly.

Don’t want that emergency room visit, nor do—want to share that with your friends and family.

Susan Sly: 45:04

Why are you lit—big?

No, you're hilarious.

Anyway—

And, Erin, check out Erin's podcast.

There is more to come.

And, Erin, you are—you are just a bright light in the world, my friend.

I'm so grateful to know you.

And for everyone listening—hopefully this show has brought you joy.

Erin and I would love a five-star review.

Tag us on social.

We'll share all of Erin's social in our show notes.

And share the show with at least three girlfriends—because someone in your life needs to hear this.

Probably everyone in your life needs to hear it.

Share it with your partner.

Share it with everyone.

As Erin and I say—

Go out and play responsibly.

That could be, like, our PSA.

Erin Moran: 45:47

I love it.

Let's do it.

Thank you so much for having me.

For sure.

This has been—I feel like we could do seven segments just from where we started.

So, please—I'm going to have you on.

There's more to come as well, because your journey is fascinating, absolutely fascinating.

So, thank you for doing everything you do for all of us every day, and for having me on.

Susan Sly: 46:09

I appreciate it.

Well, thank you so much, Erin, for being on The Menopause Health Podcast.

And to everyone listening—wherever you are in the world—just sending you so much light, so much joy, and I will see you in the next episode.

Voiceover: 46:23

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This transcript has been generated using AI technology. There may be minor errors or discrepancies in the text.

The opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the show or its hosts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional regarding your specific health needs.